MI6 Cafe Book Club!
Sep. 19th, 2015 09:00 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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Welcome back to Book Club! Get your drinks, snacks and any notes you have and gather round for the final discussions on Life and Let Die!
If you want any resources for the Casino Royale book, please find the link to the resources in the sidebar on the right! Please check the schedule to find out what we're discussing this week!
Book Club is designed to be a place where you can go beyond the Bond movies and delve into another medium with our favourite secret agent. There is no set discussions, if you have anything interesting you want to discuss about your reading experience, comments on the text, or even how reading the book might have changed your view on the characters in the movies then do share!
Some Questions to get us started!
1) What do you think of the book overall? What bits would you want to improve?
2) Has the book changed your opinion on James Bond (the character)? Why is this?
3) Have you enjoyed the read along for this month? What has been your favourite bits so far?
These questions are just to get you started, as always please post your opinions, views and other discussion points about the book that you want to talk about! Happy discussing!
Note - we will be discussing the WHOLE book this week, so naturally there will be spoilers if you have not yet finished the book!
Please note - our next book is Moonraker, and will start on the 3rd of October. Please check the schedules and resources post for more information about the book club times and where you can find copies of the book!
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Castillon (part 1 of ?)
Date: 2015-09-26 10:05 am (UTC)1st: "She varied her replies according to whether she sensed these people were good or evil. She knew that her verdict might often be a death sentence but she felt indifferent to the fate of those she judged to be evil. Very few of them were white." I think that Solitaire is a bit of a moral match for Bond in this way, because I think Bond is pretty indifferent to the fate of people he judges to be evil as well--at least, indifferent in that he doesn't generally feel remorse for the injuries and deaths he causes them. He's more like a schoolboy who's done something a little naughty than remorseful after he kills Mr. Big's henchmen and has to deal with the authorities about it. And this must have been one of the few times that Solitaire felt powerful: she held the fate of these captives in her hands and she was able to try to save those she felt were good.
2nd: "Solitaire insisted on taking off her hat and veil. 'It's sticking to my face,' she said. 'Hardly a soul has ever seen me down here.'" Solitaire, I can empathize with your desire for freedom and air after your captivity, especially in Florida's hot and humid climate. Fleming, I am so MAD that your heroine has, just like Vesper, basically precipitated her own kidnapping by doing this. I hate that Fleming's narrative is "Girls are always worse than useless and actively get themselves into trouble that boys have to save them from." EFF YOU, FLEMING. And the same goes for "'It was lucky you didn't tell me about it,' she said seriously. 'I would still be having hysterics.'" Like, I feel for Solitaire's fragility after escaping a horrifying captivity, but also there's a message of KEEP GIRLS IN IGNORANCE IN ORDER TO PROTECT THEIR FRAGILE MINDS that is just -_-.
3rd: "'Is that all right, Solitaire?' Bond asked her. 'Yes,' she said. She hesitated. 'Yes, I guess so.'" Whether you believe in Solitaire's psychic whatever or not, she clearly thinks that it will not be all right, and just as clearly is afraid to disagree with the new men who are in control of her life, even though she believes she may be compromising her long-term safety. Big hug for Solitaire. Big boo for Fleming, who seems to intimate that Solitaire should have told Bond what she was thinking in order to prevent her future captivity, but that would have involved listening to a woman and we all know Bond's feelings about that. He doesn't listen even after she later says she doesn't feel safe.
Bond continually thinks of Solitaire as "the ultimate personal prize," and it's definitely more because he wants to have sex with her than because he feels guilt about her kidnapping or whatever.
When we meet Solitaire again, she has been bruised and ill-treated. She runs to Bond and cries when she sees he's also a captive. Her psychic intuition threatens to give the game away re: the explosives, so Bond has to yell at her to be quiet. Bond resolves to drown her instead of letting her die via shark if it becomes necessary, and after they survive their keelhauling death sentence they have a lot of sex on Bond's "Passionate Leave."
Fleming's narrative basically treats Solitaire like a prize as much as Bond does. Plot-wise, she is useless if not dangerous to the success of Bond's mission despite having cool psychic powers or intuition or whatever. (I'm not sure she passes the Sexy Lamp test.) But I enjoy imagining future-Solitaire learning to heal and become an even stronger, more independent woman who feels in control of her mind, her body, and whatever nebulous psychic whatevers she might or might not have.
Re: Castillon (part 1 of ?)
Date: 2015-10-03 07:14 am (UTC)also yes why do they never listen to her?!?!?! you'd think it would make a lot of sense but? no? so stupid
Castillon (part 2 of ?)
Date: 2015-09-27 04:38 am (UTC)Tbh I really like the book. It is so over-the-top and absurd--PIRATE TREASURE; HE DISAGREED WITH SOMETHING THAT ATE HIM; THE ENORMOUS RACISM; THE MALEVOLENT OCTOPUS--but at the same time I was genuinely on the edge of my seat during some parts of it. Would Bond escape? Would he be eaten by a Moray eel or a shark? (That dark underwater trip--creepy!) What about Solitaire, Felix, and Mr. Big? Fleming definitely has a way with drama, and a way of giving details that are so concrete that the seeming-realism balances out the absurd. Now that I think of it, this Bond book especially is pretty gothic in the literary sense, even having those tinges of the supernatural with Solitaire's intuition and Mr. Big's Vodou.
2) Has the book changed your opinion on James Bond (the character)? Why is this?
What a food snob. What. a. food. snob. And cars, too--AGAIN, we have a moment where a woman is in distress and Bond takes a moment to forget about that and just enjoy the car he's driving (Felix's classic American car in this case). I mean, this isn't really a CHANGE in my opinion, since he was a food snob in CR, but it reinforced those qualities quite a lot.
Also, Bond is pretty clearly on the rebound from having True and Deep Feelings for Vesper and is therefore now mostly concerned with the physical side of things, culminating in his "Passionate Leave" with Solitaire. When Solitaire asks if he loves her a little while they're tied up together he immediately turns it into a sex pun about having time for "loving" in the future. Casino Royale ended with "The bitch is dead" and this book ends with...a sex joke? Is "What about my back?" an allusion to riding, or just teasing, or...? Anyway, this book was certainly a pretty good look at Bond's reaction to a traumatic event/romance, which was interesting.
3) Have you enjoyed the read along for this month? What has been your favourite bits so far?
I loved getting a chance to read the book and quote some of the funnier parts on Tumblr. It's been great to find some other people who love Felix!
Re: Castillon (part 2 of ?)
Date: 2015-10-03 07:21 am (UTC)3) I love it when you find quotes!
Castillon (part 2 of ?)
Date: 2015-09-27 07:05 am (UTC)Tbh I really like the book. It is so over-the-top and absurd--PIRATE TREASURE; HE DISAGREED WITH SOMETHING THAT ATE HIM; THE ENORMOUS RACISM; THE MALEVOLENT OCTOPUS--but at the same time I was genuinely on the edge of my seat during some parts of it. Would Bond escape? Would he be eaten by a Moray eel or a shark? (That dark underwater trip--creepy!) What about Solitaire, Felix, and Mr. Big? Fleming definitely has a way with drama, and a way of giving details that are so concrete that the seeming-realism balances out the absurd. Now that I think of it, this Bond book especially is pretty gothic in the literary sense, even having those tinges of the supernatural with Solitaire's intuition and Mr. Big's Vodou.
2) Has the book changed your opinion on James Bond (the character)? Why is this?
What a food snob. What. a. food. snob. And cars, too--AGAIN, we have a moment where a woman is in distress and Bond takes a moment to forget about that and just enjoy the car he's driving (Felix's classic American car in this case). I mean, this isn't really a CHANGE in my opinion, since he was a food snob in CR, but it reinforced those qualities quite a lot.
Also, Bond is pretty clearly on the rebound from having True and Deep Feelings for Vesper and is therefore now mostly concerned with the physical side of things, culminating in his "Passionate Leave" with Solitaire. When Solitaire asks if he loves her a little while they're tied up together he immediately turns it into a sex pun about having time for "loving" in the future. Casino Royale ended with "The bitch is dead" and this book ends with...a sex joke? Is "What about my back?" an allusion to riding, or just teasing, or...? Anyway, this book was certainly a pretty good look at Bond's reaction to a traumatic event/romance, which was interesting.
3) Have you enjoyed the read along for this month? What has been your favourite bits so far?
I loved getting a chance to read the book and quote some of the funnier parts on Tumblr. It's been great to find some other people who love Felix!
Re: Castillon (part 2 of ?)
Date: 2015-09-27 07:07 am (UTC)isthisrubble arrives to the party a month late with Starbucks (1/?)
Date: 2015-10-03 07:02 am (UTC)• Live and Let Die is the first of the series to use the classic formula of exotic location, “amoral and physically unusual villain,” woman-as-trophy, etc
• Fleming has a fucking gift for keeping you reading
• A review at the time of LALD’s original publication wrote that “Mr. Fleming works often on the edge of flippancy, rather in the spirit of a highbrow having immense fun.” imho that’s exactly what the books are
• Taylor likes the way Fleming deals with locations and describing them. I do too, although I don’t think Fleming has quite got the show/tell balance right yet
• There’s also a bit about the historical context, and how Bond was pure escapism for people living in post-war Britain, with travel and luxury, but also how the cold war is a huge presence in the series even if it isn’t always a huge part of the plot
• The book about ‘voodoo’ that Bond reads (and Fleming quotes extensively) was written by a friend of Fleming’s
• Taylor points out that one thing we can gain from Fleming’s portrayal of Harlem etc is that it shows us what the part of American culture looked like to a white observer in the years before the civil rights movement got huge
• Re Solitaire: She’s almost pure plot device (I’ll cover this more later) which is disappointing both if you’re reading the book looking for the sexy bits or for a well rounded female character
• He ends with this gem: “ Fleming spent his career marching with the Establishment but he marched a little out of step. So does Bond. They still do. That’s why we like them both.”
Re: isthisrubble arrives to the party a month late with Starbucks (1/?)
Date: 2015-10-03 10:47 am (UTC)Re: isthisrubble arrives to the party a month late with Starbucks (1/?)
Date: 2015-10-03 11:17 am (UTC)Re: isthisrubble arrives to the party a month late with Starbucks (1/?)
Date: 2015-10-03 05:15 pm (UTC)isthisrubble arrives to the party a month late with Starbucks (2/?)
Date: 2015-10-03 07:09 am (UTC)you know what I would change? Solitaire. So much fucking potential and? she's so ???? idek I mean what... I'll probably find some more coherant notes in the read-through stuff but I can't find stuff now so hey. just. Solitaire.
ALSO: IF MR BIG IS SO THOROUGH WHY DOES HE SUDDENLY START MAKING MISTAKES WHEN BOND APPEARS I MEAN GOD
2) Has the book changed your opinion on James Bond (the character)? Why is this?
hhmmm idk? I forgot that he actually takes the vodou seriously which is nice but otherwise I don't think so
3) Have you enjoyed the read along for this month? What has been your favourite bits so far?
I found myself enjoying LaLD more this time round than I have whenever I've read it previously! which is great! I even liked Solitaire a bit!
Re: isthisrubble arrives to the party a month late with Starbucks (2/?)
Date: 2015-10-03 10:49 am (UTC)Yay! I'm glad you liked LALD more than you did before!