Book Club - Doctor No (chapters 1-11)

[mi6-cafe-mod.livejournal.com]

Welcome to book club! Get your drinks, snacks, and any notes you have, and gather around for the discussion on the first half of Doctor No! (If you're here and you're not sure where to find the book, check the resources post in the sidebar on the right!)

Book club is designed to be a place where you can go beyond the Bond movies and delve into another medium with our favorite secret agent. We have questions to help get things started, but there are no set discussions. If you have anything interesting that you want to discuss about your reading experience, comments on the text, or how reading the book might have changed your view on the characters in the movies, then do share!

Questions to get us started: feel free to answer any or all of these as you like, and to pose your own!

1. What did you think of M and his interactions with Bond?


2. How do you feel about Honeychile?


3. Bond depends quite a lot on Quarrel. What do you think of their partnership?


4. Fleming tends to give us a good look at the villain by now, but we still haven't seen Doctor No! Are you enjoying the suspense?


5. If you haven't finished the book yet, what do you think will happen in the second half?

And I know that there are always little things in the books that I appreciate that don't fall into the broad categories above, so feel free to share any memorable moments! :D

Remember: this is a no-spoiler zone! Please only discuss chapters 1-11; we'll talk about the whole book at the next book club in two weeks.

Happy discussing!

Comments

timetospy

[(Anonymous)]

1. What did you think of M and his interactions with Bond?
M is a fucking asshole, is what I was thinking the entire time I was reading his bit. Just… just an utter asshole. And it wasn’t even the kind of assholery you can understand? It was just M being a hardass because he could, or maybe because the weather was shitty, or who knows. I mean, I get being pissed that one of your agents fucked up (and maybe I’m not getting the whole story ‘cause I didn’t read From Russia?) But his response seemed a bit severe to me. There’s stiff upper lip and then there’s just disrespect.
On a side note about this though, I loved the ‘Bond being sentimental about his Beretta’ bit.

2. How do you feel about Honeychile?
I have a lot of feelings about Honeychile, most of them having to do with being irritated at Fleming. I’m going to skip the abuse bit of her backstory because that is not my lane, other than to say it was repellent.
Solely as a character, I find her alternately annoying and mystifying, a bizarre blend of naivete and worldliness that I think is supposed to make her seductive but only succeeds in making me roll my eyes repeatedly. I think I like her, though. I appreciate her spirit and her resourcefulness. I feel terrible about her story, and based on some context (but, again, I haven’t read all the books) it seems like Bond is at least partially responsible for her predicament? Or did he not burn the house down? I was a bit confused on that point. Anyway, I think she’s supposed to be this sweet seductive thing, and I find myself rooting for her to one-up Bond in just about everything (which she has done a couple times. I love that it’s Honeychile that comes up with the bamboo straw idea). And although I’m pretty sure this is a pointless hope, I really hope she doesn’t end up sleeping with Bond, and I really kinda hope she lives to the end of the book. She deserves some happy.

3. Bond depends quite a lot on Quarrel. What do you think of their partnership?
Quarrel is fun. I ship it. But aside from that, he seems to mostly exist to assist Bond, which is, broadly speaking, his function in the narrative. But he’s got some good traits, he’s devastatingly loyal, has good local knowledge, and is useful to Bond in more ways than just being a servant. Bond himself says that Quarrel can go places he cannot to gather information he would otherwise not be privy to. Aside from pay (and a good shag!) I’m not sure yet what Quarrel gets out of the partnership.

4. Fleming tends to give us a good look at the villain by now, but we still haven’t seen Dr. No! Are you enjoying the suspense?
Quite frankly, half the time I forget why we’re on the godforsaken rock in the middle of the Caribbean other than as a location for exciting things to happen? So it hasn’t really been suspenseful for me to not see Dr. No. He’s this nebulous Maltese Falcon off stage left looming over the plot like a great bat, and I half expect him to be some elderly lady who really just wants the birds to quit shitting on her lawn. (Wouldn’t that make a damn fine twist!)

5. If you haven’t finished the book yet, what do you think will happen in the second half?

• Bond and Honeychile will shag. Unfortunately.


• I’m expecting Honeychile to die, but I’m holding out some hope.


• Bond will defeat Dr. No, either by brute strength or by cunning, I’m hoping for the latter.


• The trio will get captured by Dr. No’s minions.


• If the trio don’t get captured by Dr, No’s minions, there will be a reason they can’t take backup back to the island and will have to go back and sneak into the compound themselves.


• Bond’s gun (the Smith & Wesson, I think) will malfunction. I REALLY hope that happens for a couple of reasons. One is to fucking take Boothroyd and M down a peg or two, and two, it was submerged for a good long time, and if it didn’t malfunction I’d really call into question the continuity of the story.


• There will be some other kind of animal crisis that Bond has to deal with.

timetospy

[(Anonymous)]

Because apparently I can't shut up... and I exceeded my character limit, but had more to say about this...

Other notes:

• I loved the centipede. It was SO creepy and Bond being like ‘oh, this is what it’s like to be afraid’ was hilarious.


• You will never convince me that Bond wasn’t teased about his nose/ears as a kid by the way he talks to Honeychile about her broken nose.


• I love that Bond sits with his knees up to his chin. It feels so incongruous with the rest of him, and it’s an interesting detail.


• OK, so, there’s this bit in Ch 10 where Bond suddenly smells the personal odor of Honeychile, and all I could think was ‘You’re a damn liar, Mr. Bond, all you can smell is the mess of beans in your hand’ because she’s handing him, literally, a fist full of beans from a tin, and most tinned beans have a very pungent odor, and all I could do was laugh.


• “Oh well,” said Bond diplomatically, “let’s hope he’s got a sore tail or something.” - this line is so real and true and good.


• I love that the first time he sees Honeychile, he compares her ass to a boy’s… I mean, how bi do you have to be, really?


• ‘Bond’s naked feet on [black sand] looked like white crabs’ - bony feet. that’s all. Just bony feet.


• So, was anybody actually surprised by Miss Taro, or was that about as obvious as a plot device can get?


• Annabel Chung - Bond is fucking COLD to her, and I wish I had the previous books for more context on that.


• OK, this is just me being ridiculous, but ‘Hi, Mister Q. Long time no see. Table for two?’ out of context is the best line in all the whole book, I don’t care.


• I am thoroughly convinced that Bond would be a nudist if left to his own devices.


• I will not get over Bond being sentimental about his gun. Ever. I just won’t. It’s fantastic.


• Boothroyd is also an asshole.

Re: timetospy

[isthisrubble.livejournal.com]

#3 - yes I noticed that too. it's kinda endearing
#10 - OMG OMG
#11 - ... this is probably true oooooh

Castillon02

[(Anonymous)]

1. I LOVED Bond being sentimental about his gun! Great moment.

I thought M was an asshat when I first read it--I mean, he's punishing Bond for almost dying. Way to blame the victim. But my theory is that M was shaken by how close Bond got to dying, and so he's not only taking his fear out on Bond, he's also distancing himself from Bond in an attempt to prevent that kind of hurt again. (He was also probably pissed off that Bond fell in love again in the last book. He's always been kind of jealous about Bond having other commitments.) That doesn't excuse his jerkass behavior, of course.

3. Re: what Quarrel gets out of his partnership with Bond, I think Fleming implies that it's the chance to do exciting espionage stuff? There's a moment where he says something about "these being the kind of antics that Quarrel had looked forward to when he'd picked up Bond" or something like that. And Quarrel's dialogue about his fishing job makes it seem kinda humdrum. So, yeah--Quarrel gets paid well to do out of the ordinary things, and for a while there just to hang around giving Bond massages and cooking him meals and telling Bond to swim harder, haha.

Castillon02

[(Anonymous)]

Also, re: the house burning down, I'm pretty sure Bond doesn't do that? *goes back* Yeah, it just says "It was burned down and my parents were killed," and it happened when she was a little kid, almost certainly too far back for it to have been Bond. And I think the only things Bond set on fire were on the ocean in LALD.

I'm always cheering whenever a Bond girl one-ups Bond, and it's actually not that rare! And tbh Bond likes it too. He's always seemed most attracted to girls who know what they want and can tell him what to do but who also need him for some concrete reason. It's most obvious here with Honey, who he blatantly thinks of as a project:

"His mind was full of the day and of this extraordinary Girl Tarzan who had come into his life. It was as if some beautiful animal had attached itself to him. There would be no dropping the leash until he had solved her problems for her. He knew it. Of course there would be no difficulty about most of them. He could fix the operation-even, with the help of friends, find a proper job and a home for her. He had the money. He would buy her dresses, have her hair done, get her started in the big world. It would be fun."

But obviously he's got to save the other girls from the villains and things like that in the other books. (They usually live, BTW! Except for Vesper ;_;)

IDK, what does it say about Bond that his relationships with women end after they no longer need him to do a specific thing? that Bond's longest relationship is with M, who ALWAYS needs him to do a specific thing, and will never stop needing him to do a specific thing? Rather than with someone who just, you know...wants/needs Bond for himself. I think Vesper might have been the only exception while she was alive.

Castillon02

[(Anonymous)]

Also yes, I agree, book!Bond would absolutely be a nudist if left to his own devices. He loves sleeping naked and bathing naked, and he monologues much more about good food than good suits.

And yeah, although Boothroyd was certainly presented as an expert in marksmanship as well as Q Branch things, which was nice info for Q headcanons, he was all trying to shame Bond about his "girly gun" like a total jerkass, so he didn't make the most amazing first impression!

Re: timetospy

[isthisrubble.livejournal.com]

I totally get what you mean about the lack of suspense. Fleming is usually very good at that, so it is a little bit of a letdown. usually we meet the villain or his minions in the first chapter with no context, but this time I think he was a little too liberal with the lack of context, so all the separate plots feel, well, detached from each other

and re: Honeychile's house and re: M, you're missing some context with both of them - yes, Bond was in Jamaica before (in Live and Let Die), but that was years after the house burnt down, and he had nothing to do with it. and as for M, well, I'm not really sure I can explain it further than it was explained in Dr No without spoiling From Russia With Love

I too want the gun to fuck up, omg. and also, animal crisis... *cut to Bond trying to heard gulls and failing miserably*

timetospy

[(Anonymous)]

OK! See, I'm glad people know things.
I couldn't figure out the timeline for Honeychile's house actually burning down? It seemed like it burnt down when she was little, but then I thought that it was just her parents had died and she and her nanny had lived in the house until it burnt down, and that's when nanny died and Honeychile went to live in the rubble? But it was very late at night when I read that part, so I probably just confused myself by trying to connect it up in some way.

Castillon02

[(Anonymous)]

Just finished reading the book today! And wow, I am already seeing some parallels with Live and Let Die, and not just the setting, so I'll be really interested to see how the books compare once I read the second half.

Questions!

1) Super amused by M being a crotchety old man about the weather and so cranky about Bond almost dying, and ALSO I AM AMUSED at the fact that M is never far from Bond's thoughts. Bond is always like, "I'll show him!" and "Ha! I wish M were here to slog through five miles of jungle." It reminds me a lot of when Bond is talking to Tiffany Case and he literally says something like, "Er, I'm kind of already married to someone else" and he's thinking of M.

(Also I am ALWAYS thinking nonsexual sub!Bond and dom!M thoughts when it comes to the books. M's conversation with the doctor where he's like, "I KNOW /MY/ MAN'S CAPABILITIES" doesn't exactly contradict that, nor does Fleming's use of the word "frigid" to describe M's attitude, though it's not as obvious as it is in, say, Moonraker.)

2) I am so torn about Honeychile. On the one hand...I like her nature girl thing. her independence. the fact that she reads the encyclopedia. her determination to keep living and to work hard to get what she wants no matter what. Honey is FIERCE and A SURVIVOR and frickin' gutsy as hell. I mean--killing her rapist with a black widow spider; hunting shells on an island that has a freakin' dragon on it, not to mention Doctor No and his gang of murderers; learning how to keep on living after the death of her nanny/mother figure, and after her sexual assault. I am SO HERE FOR HONEY SURVIVING AND TAKING WHAT SHE WANTS.

And on the other hand, there's Fleming's sexism. D:

I support Honey going after what she wants and wanting to own her home outright, but I'm side-eyeing Fleming for making Honey's ambition to get a nose job in order to be more beautiful so she can be an expensive call-girl. Because beauty is EVERYTHING, AMMIRITE? (I mean. There's often the message that beauty kind of IS everything in our society? But still.)

And, okay, I admit I laughed a little bit at Bond being like "...Maybe she just doesn't know what a call girl is?" and Honey being so matter-of-fact about it, but Honey's childish naivete is another thing I have issues with. As entertaining as the "wild girl" trope can be, it's also Fleming trying to have it both ways--he's got a Bond girl who Bond can always immediately feel superior to because of his city and social experiences (a Bond girl who is almost a child--he even phrases it that way), but he's also got a Bond girl who's a capable independent woman (definitely mature physically, as her gratuitous nakedness shows). Bond even questions whether it's ethical to have sex with her, which I thought was interesting.

Honey's trusting nature in general--her willingness to go along with Bond--seems a little hard to swallow when it seems like men have generally caused her nothing but trouble. However, if she were starved for friendly human companionship, I can see how the desire for positive social interaction might tempt her into going along with Bond despite her suspicions.

Also, Bond is definitely looking at her as some sort of project--thinking about how he can get her a 'better' life (including a nose job), which is, you know, nice of him, but it's also condescending to think he can rearrange her life to the way he thinks it should be. Honey is also the second survivor of sexual assault who Bond has been romantically linked with (the first was Tiffany Case in Diamonds Are Forever), and in both cases there's been a feeling that Bond is there to 'fix what's been broken'--for Tiffany it was her refusal to have anything to do with men, and in Honey's case he's probably going to literally get her broken nose fixed.


(Kinda want a My Fair Lady 00Q AU with Bond as the professor now, ngl.)

Will do the rest of the questions tomorrow as it's gotten late here!

Castillon02

[(Anonymous)]

3) One of the things I like about the books is that Bond is supposedly this lone wolf type fellow, but he always finds a friend he can rely on in his adventures. It's nice that Bond respects Quarrel's expertise in different areas of life, and I think it's really cute that Bond is all "Quarrel, you need to train me up!" and so excited about it. For Quarrel himself, I like that he can cook and that h's always the one organizing the practical camp stuff while Bond is all "I need a shower," haha, although of course that's also rooted in Bond being white and knowing that POC Quarrel will take care of things for him.
Plus, I mean, yeah, those daily massages--I ship it.

4) LALD was all about ~sinister~ black people, and now that's been combined with the threat of ~sinister~ Asian people. (That moment where the secretary is "a Chinese" and you practically hear the DUNDUNDUN afterward--ugh.) Fleming also hasn't gone out of his way to talk up this Doctor No fellow?? In most of his books you get a fairly clear picture of the villain right away, but all Fleming really lets us see in this one is the brutal efficiency of the two murders in the beginning and that weird poisoned fruit--oh, and the refusal of the freelance journalist to talk under interrogation. That's pretty telling. But all in all the Doctor No thing feels kinda ho-hum? Is that intentional on Fleming's part, I wonder? It puts us very much in Bond's shoes--we mostly only know what he knows--and that's a bit of a departure from, say, From Russia With Love, where we spent the first ten chapters getting backstory on various characters, including the villains. I'll be interested to see the full effect of this prevarication once I've read the whole book.

5) What will happen next?

-Bond and co. will get captured. Of course. At least once for Bond, probably more.

-Quarrel will die, setting off the Chekov's gun of his life insurance policy

-Quarrel's death will set off Bond's "NOW IT'S PERSONAL" revenge mode

-Honey and Bond will get together. shocker.

-maybe the Audubon Society will show up at some point? something about the endangered birds being able to be restored by the end of the book now that they're no longer being burned to death

-climactic fight scene amidst the piles of guano

-maybe Bond will have to make an undersea trip again like he did in LALD? there are enough parallels already so what's one more

[isthisrubble.livejournal.com]

I had forgotten a lot about this book, plot and character wise, which is nice, because I'm more or less experiencing the the book the same way people who haven't read it before are.

1) M is a massive dick in this book so far, which I think is partly the weather, partly the doctor rubbing him up the wrong way, partly frustration about the bird issue being dumped on him, and partly a desire to make sure Bond understands that what happened before can't happen again. he may have overdone it a bit. tbh I really feel, the more attention I pay and the further we get into the series, that Dench!M is very similar to Book!M, which is great. also, did anyone else notice that Fleming apparently forgot Tanner's name? poor guy can't catch a break

2) on a meta level: me @ fleming CAN YOU STOP WITH THE TRAGIC BACKSTORIES, CHRIST. like, ew. also, like Solitare, Honeychile could have been a great opportunity to have a Bond girl of colour, but no.

on the other hand, I love how determined she is to be independent, and how she refuses to just accept that Bond knows best.

3) like with Honeychile, you can look at it on two levels. one, the "POC always depicted as below Bond, useful but not always listened to if Bond thinks he's being superstitious or something" level, and the other, the "trusted friend, indispensable, smart in a different way to Bond" level. I think it's great that Bond has a recurring POC ally. HOWEVER. things happen in the second half. :(

4) of all the villains I've come across while reading the books, Dr No made the least impression on me (grammar. I can't do it). I barely remember anything about him, and I kept forgetting he exists while reading the first half of the book. to me there really isn't any suspense, which sucks.

5) I don't fully remember what happens next, or what was book and what was movie, so... have some hopefully spoiler-free/vague educated guesses?
- a Thing happens to Quarrel
- some sort of booby trapped... something? that Bond has to get past? I might be confusing Dr No with a section of one of the Young Bond books, though
- the dragon is revealed! I know this does happen
- Dr No is mildy creepy? I think?
- Bond does some thrilling heroics and then Honey has to save him afterwards
- something happens with crabs that Max Remy, Superspy lovingly ripped off

Castillon02

[(Anonymous)]

1) YES, I did notice that with Tanner's name! I was like "the Chief of Staff...you mean TANNER, FLEMING?" But I think the book also described Tanner as Bond's best friend at MI6, which was an "awww" moment for me. I like it when Fleming gives Bond friends.

5) Honey saving Bond! INTO IT. But now I'm super curious about the crab thing, haha.

Re: Castillon02

[isthisrubble.livejournal.com]

1) like, I mean, if it was me thinking about my best friend, I'D USE THEIR NAME. I think Fleming did a Arthur Conan Doyle

5) I really hope the thing I'm vaguely remembering is actually from Dr No, otherwise I'm going to look like a clot